Curse

Miss Merryweather · Feb 27, 2011, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasta Hawk

Back on topic, the source I requested was from back in October which was four or five months ago. Thanks but is there any recent news and is it definite?

john stumme said something on monday about how many heroes we will get to use in elite areas so guessing its still coming with the embark beach update

http://wiki.guildwars.com/index.php?...ns_Elite_Areas (right at the bottom)

Quote:

It's 7. The Elite areas for Factions were very particular in their design, that different party members would need to do/bring certain things. Having people trying to solo them is just going to highlight that, and make for a limiting/frustrating experience. I think it's ok to say that there are some places that you still need to bring a friend along, especially considering the number of places people can get to that they couldn't before they had 7 heroes. John Stumme 17:45, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

Daesu · Feb 27, 2011, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Not on a Protective Bond Ele. You have Aura of Restoration and that's about it. Burning Speed if you bring it, but many here seem to be opposed to that. Maybe Spirit Bond if you left Aegis?

So... Aura of Restoration plus one?

Honestly, if you don't think your "situation" can get wrecked quickly with a 1 second Glyph of Swiftness + 1 second Ether Renewal + 1-2 Seconds for covers, I think you need to revisit *your* Ele.

"Let's have the enemy beat on our backline!" has never had any productive results, next to the occasional farm.

Why only AoR? There are enough fast recharge, high energy cost enchantments to choose from. PS is 5s, Spirit Bond is 2s, and Shield Guardian 1s.

Your ER is usually flagged behind but even if you have made a mistake and didn't flag your ER hero back, it is usually non-fatal since most enchant stripping spells are shallow. Of course there are situations that can counter your ER (as with all builds) or you can have really bad luck and you forgot to flag, but for most areas in PvE, enchant stripping is usually not an issue with ER.

Having said that, the biggest threat to an ER ele is not enchant stripping. Since the health gain from ER kicks off BEFORE the health loss from Infuse, you would always end up with about half life after casting infuse even with ER on. This means your ER hero can be targeted after casting infuse, IF you didn't flag him well. Enchant stripping, however, is usually more of an annoyance than actual danger.

Miteshu · Feb 27, 2011, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Discordway + Mesway + UA/HB.

Don't tell me that one of those team builds are nerfed please.

Kaida the Heartless · Feb 27, 2011, 09:19 PM // 21:19

It's not an ER Hero, its an ER player. They are bonding the team with Protective Bond, not spamming 5 Prot Spells like a hero.

Glyph of Swiftness
Ether Renewal [E]
Aura of Restoration
Life Attunement
Protective Bond
Infuse Health

Six skills right there, mandatory on the bar. Leaves 2 open, 3 if you feel like being ballsy running Prot Bond without Glyph. Two seconds + covertime to completely wreck your setup. I'd say that's a pretty big hole to have things go wrong, esp. given that you're going to be at half health the whole time because you are spamming Infuse, generating ridiculous amounts of aggro.

You give me a scenario where it is legitimately better to have the enemies wailing on you as ER Prot Bond than on a teammate. It doesn't exist. Your backline doesn't need to be hit, ever.

And good luck staying out of range and healing your melee. At least this way you probably have orders for covers, but I'd rather not risk the interrupt on Glyph or ER. Once again, always better to keep the enemies off the backline.

Outerworld · Feb 27, 2011, 09:44 PM // 21:44

You only need two open slots for PS and SB both of which provide can cover you easily.

Jeydra · Feb 27, 2011, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

You give me a scenario where it is legitimately better to have the enemies wailing on you as ER Prot Bond than on a teammate. It doesn't exist. Your backline doesn't need to be hit, ever.

E.g. against Burning Spirits you can have the ER tank them all and put his +150 health per cast to good use.

Your inexperience with Elementalists is telling.

Kaida the Heartless · Feb 28, 2011, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

E.g. against Burning Spirits you can have the ER tank them all and put his +150 health per cast to good use.

Your inexperience with Elementalists is telling.

I'd rather have them on my frontline where +500 per cast is good use.

HigherMinion · Feb 28, 2011, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

I'd rather have them on my frontline where +500 per cast is good use.

Just Spirit Bond alone allows you to tank yourself. If there are no counters in the mob, such as Daze, knockdown, interrupt, strip; tank and aggro as much as you like.

Daesu · Feb 28, 2011, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

It's not an ER Hero, its an ER player. They are bonding the team with Protective Bond, not spamming 5 Prot Spells like a hero.

Glyph of Swiftness
Ether Renewal [E]
Aura of Restoration
Life Attunement
Protective Bond
Infuse Health

It is even EASIER playing an effective ER, for a player than it is for a hero. Note that you can always self-protect if you are being targeted and also you do get healed whenever you cast your spells, when ER+AoR are up. So if you are being targeted and fear you are going to die, you can just spam SB on yourself.

If there are ranger interrupts around, I would try to run behind a wall/obstacle and make use of the terrain because 1) making use of the terrain costs me 0 energy for 100% block indefinitely, 2) the AI is not smart enough to stop shooting after your character has hidden behind an obstacle, so they would continue to waste their skills on you, leaving themselves vulnerable.

Kaida the Heartless · Feb 28, 2011, 03:58 AM // 03:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Just Spirit Bond alone allows you to tank yourself. If there are no counters in the mob, such as Daze, knockdown, interrupt, strip; tank and aggro as much as you like.

Truth, however everyone knows your can kill those mobs with your monitor off. I would still rather have them doing the same DPS to one of my protted targets while I safely spam much more effective heals on them when they need it.

@Daesu:
I understand how ER and the E/Mo concept work with all the varieties, the bigger issue with me is:

Why endanger my power healer (and in turn, my entire party) when I could let the rest of my party take damage, like it should be, and heal safely at no extra cost or risk?

AndrewSX · Feb 28, 2011, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

It's not an ER Hero, its an ER player. They are bonding the team with Protective Bond, not spamming 5 Prot Spells like a hero.

Why not? It's the only way i feel i can play ER, cause is waaay less boring than "put bonds up-mantain ER-spam burning speed like hell".
Done kath using something like:

Ether Renewal [E]
Aura of restoration
Protective Spirit
Spirit Bond
Extinguish
Great Dwarf Weapon
Breath of Great Dwarf
Infuse

Apart the 2 burning-removing skills and GDW, using this bar you won't get bored after 5 mins...it requires a little more effort tought.

No need of glyph because:
1-ER @16ES with +20%ench would be down for 4 secs like. With around 90 energy you can easily cover those 4 secs without ER on.
2-casting ER became even longer(glyph+ER+aftercasts)
3-is a skil slot that you can use better.

Quote:

Why endanger my power healer (and in turn, my entire party) when I could let the rest of my party take damage, like it should be, and heal safely at no extra cost or risk?

Because:
1-you're a protter, not the real healer: you're taking damage to a non-insane level for another member(for me is generally a UA hero) who will heal it. HE is who you should protect, if you have to choose between ER(Hp and ene on every cast) and UA monk(or whatever you're using).
2-because if you're going to taking damage, your party is doing something wrong. And if you're using heroes, is just bad flagging.
Spread them-pull mob if needed(after protted yourself)-hide behind hence wall-spam prots.

HigherMinion · Feb 28, 2011, 07:37 AM // 07:37

When I started ERing, I *think* it was when Zodiac made that infuser vid, but just spamming Infuse wasn't working, people spiked out fast in alot of instances without the prots.(ER+AoR+EL+LA+loads of other maintainable prots like mending and vital blessing)

Then there was the bar where it was just prots and no infuse for UWSC... Even more terrible. Not terrible for the job it had as a bonder+tank; I was using it to duo Ravenheart Gloom with a perma sin, instead of getting my monk to DoA. But it has no place without a tank and spank team.

Arrogant Bastard · Feb 28, 2011, 08:13 AM // 08:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

It's not an ER Hero, its an ER player. They are bonding the team with Protective Bond, not spamming 5 Prot Spells like a hero.

Glyph of Swiftness
Ether Renewal [E]
Aura of Restoration
Life Attunement
Protective Bond
Infuse Health

Six skills right there, mandatory on the bar. Leaves 2 open, 3 if you feel like being ballsy running Prot Bond without Glyph. Two seconds + covertime to completely wreck your setup. I'd say that's a pretty big hole to have things go wrong, esp. given that you're going to be at half health the whole time because you are spamming Infuse, generating ridiculous amounts of aggro.

You give me a scenario where it is legitimately better to have the enemies wailing on you as ER Prot Bond than on a teammate. It doesn't exist. Your backline doesn't need to be hit, ever.

And good luck staying out of range and healing your melee. At least this way you probably have orders for covers, but I'd rather not risk the interrupt on Glyph or ER. Once again, always better to keep the enemies off the backline.

Don't use Glyph, it's useless. Now you have 3 slots(2 if you bring GDW) for quick recharging enchantments.

If you run a dual ER backline, then one of the players has one more free slot.

It's quite easy to stay out of range of most aggro and heal/prot melees.

I can't name an area I haven't done with ER eles. Chilblains is a bitch sometimes, but not too hard to counter (have your allies bring Aegis, Dwayna's Sorrow, orders).

The fact that you can't test any of your theories isn't really helping your case.

HigherMinion · Feb 28, 2011, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

Don't use Glyph, it's useless. Now you have 3 slots(2 if you bring GDW) for quick recharging enchantments.

If you run a dual ER backline, then one of the players has one more free slot.

It's quite easy to stay out of range of most aggro and heal/prot melees.

I can't name an area I haven't done with ER eles. Chilblains is a bitch sometimes, but not too hard to counter (have your allies bring Aegis, Dwayna's Sorrow, orders).

The fact that you can't test any of your theories isn't really helping your case.

Mirror of Disenchantment is probably the worst enchant strip. You have to actually rely on other party members for not having PB stripped off everyone. That's when things usually start going tits up

Kaida the Heartless · Feb 28, 2011, 10:20 AM // 10:20

@Andrew:
Yea, a Protter that can spam a ~1 second (aftercast included) power heal of 500. I'd rather throw Mehnlo in there. He doesn't get frustrated! :P

@Arrogant:
Dude, I've tested enough on other classes to know these things. Blue skills draw aggro. Blue skills that cut your health in half draw a LOT of aggro. Also, it's pretty awesome what -40AL when compared to your Warrior/Frontline/Whatever will do for your popularity. I've pulled entire circles off foes off of tanks with a N/Rt at max range. It happens.

What do I need to test? I've got buds who actually rolled Ele's. I've seen it happen. Dunno why I need to bother reinventing the wheel when they have the info already.

@All:
Aaaaaaanyways, I feel like I'm going to spend more time running crazy things than effective ones. It's just too tempting to do so when you have full control and access to all bars.

Arrogant Bastard · Feb 28, 2011, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

@Andrew:
Yea, a Protter that can spam a ~1 second (aftercast included) power heal of 500. I'd rather throw Mehnlo in there. He doesn't get frustrated! :P

@Arrogant:
Dude, I've tested enough on other classes to know these things. Blue skills draw aggro. Blue skills that cut your health in half draw a LOT of aggro. Also, it's pretty awesome what -40AL when compared to your Warrior/Frontline/Whatever will do for your popularity. I've pulled entire circles off foes off of tanks with a N/Rt at max range. It happens.

What do I need to test? I've got buds who actually rolled Ele's. I've seen it happen. Dunno why I need to bother reinventing the wheel when they have the info already.

@All:
Aaaaaaanyways, I feel like I'm going to spend more time running crazy things than effective ones. It's just too tempting to do so when you have full control and access to all bars.

Some of the reasons why you need to be able to test your theories in-game:
1. The sample ER build for your theory used Glyph of Swiftness
2. You are suggesting the use of Burning Speed
3. You severely underestimated how many enchantments an ER bonder brings

Had you actually played an ER ele (and outside of speedclears), these sorts of incorrect assumptions would have been avoided and you could have made a stronger argument (or avoided making such a weak one).

Hell, you don't actually have to play an ER ele to know these things--simply observing a decent player use one outside of a speedclear would suffice (e.g. get someone else to test for you).

Xenomortis · Feb 28, 2011, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by HigherMinion

Mirror of Disenchantment is probably the worst enchant strip. You have to actually rely on other party members for not having PB stripped off everyone. That's when things usually start going tits up

Well of the Profane.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrogant Bastard

1. The sample ER build for your theory used Glyph of Swiftness

Glyph of Swiftness is fine. If you're using Prot Bond but not consumables then it's near necessary since any downtime on ER can be lethal.
If you're not using Prot Bond then it's more or less up to the player; a reliable second cast of ER can make the difference in tough situations, at the cost of a skill slot and a little time investment.

Jeydra · Feb 28, 2011, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

Why endanger my power healer (and in turn, my entire party) when I could let the rest of my party take damage, like it should be, and heal safely at no extra cost or risk?

Only in your fantasy world is it somehow possible to be endangered vs. Burning Spirits when you're under Protective Bond, Spirit Bond, Aura of Restoration, Ether Renewal and Life Attunement, while restoring 200 health per cast.

Also only in your fantasy world is it possible to kill Borguus Blisterbark with your monitor turned off.

I'm seriously wondering whether or not I should put you on ignore. People who do not play [insert profession, arena, etc] should refrain from commenting on that particular thing.

Kaida the Heartless · Feb 28, 2011, 07:08 PM // 19:08

@Jeydra:
Oddly enough, I'm betting I could kill Borguus with my Monitor off with an ER Prot Bond Ele and Burning Speed. Couldn't be too hard when the Mob's damage is capped at 25'ish, but i digress.

Also, suddenly I'm the badguy because you've found an exception? Please, put me on ignore. It makes no difference to me; it's your loss really. You seem to be stuck on me reinventing the wheel when I have stated clearly that I have friends, in addition to my own personal related experiences, that can simply tell me these things.

Experience tells me (and everyone else in the universe) your backline doesn't need to be getting hit. It's ALWAYS been that way in both PvE and PvP. You gain nothing by having your backline wailed on in place of your front or mid line. It causes errors. Errors lead to deaths. Six years of Guildwars has told the community: Keep the monks (backline) safe. Are you really trying to tell me the Ele is somehow excluded?

@Arrogant:
Uh, didn't I just tell you that I have buds that run them?
"What do I need to test? I've got buds who actually rolled Ele's. I've seen it happen. Dunno why I need to bother reinventing the wheel when they have the info already."

I'll just ignore the fact that we are talking about a character build that relies 100% on, and cannot function without, a single enchantment. Enchantment removal isn't the only threat to backline characters.

My argument is pretty legitimate: The backline should stay safe. Call me an idiot, but I think it's called the backline for a reason. It's you that are telling me (and 6 years of consensus by the entire GW population) that letting your healers get hit is okay. What?

@All:
But seriously, I appreciate the advice, but I'll have to keep my terrible, inexperienced opinions in this instance. This thread is derailing.

Physway: DB Sin vs. Dervish, which to run? Both are pretty, not sure which I should run.

Rites · Feb 28, 2011, 08:15 PM // 20:15

this will be what i will start with, will tweak as needed